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Logitech Revue Epilog

Discussion in 'More News from Your Google TV News Team' started by Rickaren, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Rickaren

    Rickaren New Member Staff Member

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    Logitech Revue Epilog

    August 13, 2011



    I told you to go forth and buy yourself a Logitech Revue with Google TV. This week, I’m telling you: Not so fast! Here’s why.


    I noticed that the sound is not a straight pass-through from the satellite/cable box to the receiver. Recall that the Revue box sits between the cable/satellite receiver and the AV receiver or preamp, with HDMI connections to both. The problem is that what starts as Dolby Digital 5.1 at the satellite/cable receiver often is output by the Revue as analog multichannel or PCM multichannel 2.1, at least in my case. This is apparently a flaw that has affected enough Revue users to be easily searchable via Google.


    If you do the search, once you start reading the results, you’ll see that people have been complaining about this flaw since December 2010, but Logitech has yet to fix it. In fact, they’re not talking about it in public or even acknowledging that it exists. The situation is a mess because different AV receivers seem to do different things with the PCM output. People are suggesting all sorts of workarounds involving using the S/PDIF output to the receiver and the HDMI output to the TV, but avoiding that kind of awkwardness is why I went to an AV receiver with multiple HDMI inputs in the first place. Furthermore, I spent enough money on seven speakers for a home theater that I don’t feel like being told “you can’t do dat”.

    As it stands, the Revue will be relegated to duty as an Internet interface for the TV, outputting its signal via an alternate HDMI input directly to the TV so AS can play Scrabble and torment her Facebook buddies without bringing the laptop downstairs. I cannot leave it in-line between the satellite receiver and the AV receiver for much longer without getting pissed off when I have no surround sound for NFL games.


    I wonder whether Logitech reduced the price to $99 knowing that this problem existed. Perhaps they are not responding to comments about it because they intend to fix it in Release 2.0 — new hardware, which they might or might not ever put on the market due to the lukewarm response to the original device. So, they piss me off even if they do market the mythical machine.

    It has been reported that there is degradation in picture quality, although I haven’t observed any myself, perhaps because of my old eyes.

    I know that this issue is not deal killer to many of you, but for those who I led astray with my kudos, I humbly apologize.

    SOURCE
     
  2. eferz

    eferz Well-Known Member

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    No, Logitech spent $34 million in charge backs to their distributors to reduce the Revue to $99 in order to gain customer acceptance. As they are intending to use the Google TV platform as a catalyst into the Digital Home market. Selling it with such a slim profit profile was meant to increase their digital home user base. As they hope to incur higher profits from their accessories and complementarity lines for the Revue. This information can be ascertained from the Q1 FY 2011 investor webcast, prepared remarks, slide presentation, and press release.

    I've transcribed the Revue pertinent talks into the notes below for your reading pleasure.

    As far as some of the problems which seem to have been untouched by Logitech's development support, many of us believe that it is due to the mismanagement of their development staff. Instead of dividing the group with two focuses, "future features" and "bug fixes", it seems like they may have put all of their eggs into one basket because of the anticipation of Android 3.1 (Honeycomb).

    Since they were always under the impression from Google that the update would be less than three months away, they probably focused their efforts into the Android 3.1 SDK as opposed to resolving the problem in the current 2.1 platform. While I admit that nobody has actual proof one way or the other, it would explain why they were a lot of bug fixes and feature enhancements released in the patches prior to the release of the Android 3.1 SDK in February. After which the patches only seemed to contain "Security fixes" probably handed to them from Google's own development staff.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  3. sarreq

    sarreq Member

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    ok, so i haven't tried this myself yet, since this is the first I've heard of this problem, but is completely out of the question to plug the revue between the A/V receiver and the TV, rather than between the STB and the A/V-R? does the double hop hinder the data/control link between the revue and the STB?
     
  4. DCAlexandria

    DCAlexandria Member

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    Great another article by a moron too dumb to hook up a revue. I Repeat I have two revues NO issues with video and NO issues with sound. Wonder how much apple pays folks to write these articles.
     
  5. eferz

    eferz Well-Known Member

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    Placing the AV Receiver before the Revue would cause the audio and video to become asynchronous. Since the Intel CE4100 reprocess HDMI signal to allow Google TV overlays, there will be lag between the presentation of audio and video.


    I don't understand how you have come up with this conclusion. The symptom which he is referring about is a known issue with the Google TV platform. Remember, the Google TV is supposed to work with a diverse array of consumer audio and video electronics. Just because your experience is problem free with your set-up, it doesn't make you intellectually superior to those who are having issues. You may want to consider that in the future before laying unfounded judgements with name calling.

    Besides the author of the blog post, The Nittany Turkey aka Ben Goldfarb, has been writing these public service announcements and whatever the hell else is on his mind since 1985. It began an e-mail distribution list, later as a page on his web site, and now as a blog since 2004. He is a semi-retired IT consultant, as well as a libertarian, a raconteur, and a philosopher. And from what I can tell from his other posts, doesn't have an "Apple" agenda.

    Anyways, here is the previous blog post which he mentioned earlier.

     
  6. sarreq

    sarreq Member

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    so they do it in a stupid manner and leave it to us to suffer for it... yup, sounds like an electronics company.

    so if theed only problem is audio lag/gain, my receiver does have a setting for that (lets me adjust for lag in either direction), is that not a common feature?
     
  7. eferz

    eferz Well-Known Member

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    Many AV receivers have an audio delay feature but its not standard. There are also the optional LipSync specification of HDMI 1.3 and Audio Return Channel of HDMI 1.4. The Sony Internet Televisions (NSX-xxGT1) does have a single ARC enabled HDMI on port 1. However, I don't believe that the Logictech Revue nor the Sony Internet Blu-Ray (NSZ-GT1) utilize them which is why you would put them before the AV receiver.
     
  8. sparkyscott21

    sparkyscott21 Moderator Staff Member

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    Brings up a great point eferz..

    The little bit of lag I have noticed, I have " went around " with my home receiver with milli-seconds control..
    To bad not all rec. have that ability...
     
  9. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    Fixing the audio problems should be important. I don't think the issues are impossible to fix, unless the Boxee or other similar device using the Intel Atom CE4100 also has the problems without any fix. Logitech should respond to the complaints and let us know the status, unless the issue hasn't even been considered yet.
     
  10. eferz

    eferz Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be fair to compare the Boxee with the Revue in this respect. Boxee doesn't allow itself to be place in-between AV equipment like the Revue. The Revue is unique amongst IP streaming devices in that it wasn't designed to be an endpoint device. It was meant to be placed in-between consumer electronics to enhance and expand the user experience with the user's set-top box.

    This particular audio issue is the result of the Revue not bit streaming the HDMI audio. The Revue will decode the audio signal to allow the Google TV sound effects to be injected into the stream. However, the output is encoded as a 7.1 multichannel LPCM regardless of the originating signal. If the set-top box outputs stereo audio then the Revue will map the channels respectively within the confines of the 7.1 channels. Unfortunately, most receivers cannot perform post processing to fill the other speakers because the remaining channels are present but silent.

    The workaround in this situation is to use an optical audio cable and set the Optical Audio Output to PCM. The audio signal will then be encoded into a two channel LPCM stream which would allow the AV Receiver to employ Dolby Pro-Logic or other DSP effects. However, in order to appreciate the full sound capacity when the set-top box is actually streaming a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal, one is required to manually switch back to HDMI audio or switch the Optical Audio Output from PCM to Dolby Digital

    Obviously, this should have been fixed long ago. However, since Google released the Android 3.1 SDK in February, it seems to be a coincidence that further enhancements and bug fixes began to dwindle in the remaining system updates.

    Revue & Google TV Updates
    There is a consensus that Logitech's developers are placing all their efforts into 3.1 despite Google not living up to their promises on delivery. If this is the case, many of us have been left to ponder why they didn't deploy a contingency plan for support when Google has failed to meet their expectations on more than one occasion.
     
  11. samjc

    samjc New Member

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    I purchased the Revue and tried it. Everything worked well, except getting it to actually transcode Netflix's DD+ to standard DD 5.1 (AC-3) so that my older AVR (which doesn't support DD+) could process it. After a few hours of trying a multitude of configurations (using optical only, HDMI only, both from Revue to AVR) and the optical settings on Revue (PCM, Dolby Digital) I called Logitech support. They said the current Revue does not support Netflix's DD+. So, off it went back to Best Buy.
    Hopefully, a future model or firmware update will handle it. Until then, I 'll just keep using the Roku 1 for now. I did like the Revue as a "smart tv" option, and I'll take a second look at it if they can handle the downmixing of Netflix's DD+ to AC-3.
     

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