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Hey, Revue5: Audio Question

Discussion in 'Google TV General Discussion' started by Travel, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Travel

    Travel Active Member

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    I got a new sound bar, a Yamaha YHT -S401 and have an audio question if you're interested.

    1) The Yamaha YHT -S401 has a receiver with 4 HDMI-IN, and 1 HDMI-out with "ARC" support. 1 digital optical audio port.

    2) FiOS cable box.

    3) Toshiba HDTV with 4 HDMI ports but doesn't support "ARC." 1 digital optical audio port.

    4) The Sony GS7.


    Current set-up:

    GS7 to FiOS box by HDMI.

    GS7 to ToshibaTV by HDMI.

    YHT -S401 sound bar to GS7 by digital optical audio cable.
    ..................................

    GoogleTV settings;

    "Audio Output (HDMI)" = "PCM"

    "Audio Output (Optical)" = Checked box

    "Audio Pass-through" = "Off"

    The sound with this set-up and settings is pretty good, and the receiver display shows either "PCM-ProLogic 2" or "DD Digital" depending on the content, but the "sound separation" quality doesn't seem to be as expected, even with no surround rear speakers, and the currently used: sound bar "left," "right" and "center" speakers, plus the separate sub woofer.

    I'd like to try a set-up with everything connected separately to the receiver by HDMI, but not sure if this is possible (or optimal) without the ToshibaTV "ARC" support.

    Any suggestions welcome, thanks.
     
  2. Travel

    Travel Active Member

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    I think I have it.

    GS7 HDMI-in to FiOS cable box HDMI-out.

    GS7 HDMI-out to Receiver HDMI-in.

    ToshibaTV HDMI-in #1 to receiver HDMI-out ("ARC")

    No digital audio Optical cable used at all.

    All audio works: cable and GS7, even though the Toshiba (as far as I can tell from the specs and no "ARC" labels on the HDMI ports) has no "ARC" support. Maybe it does, and it's just not mentioned anywhere.


    GoogleTV settings;

    "Audio Output (HDMI)" = "Auto"

    "Audio Output (Optical)" = leave box unchecked

    "Audio Pass-through" = "Off"
    .....................................................

    Tested it out on VuDu playing "Fury."

    "2 minute preview" in DD Digital and "Trailer" in PCM ProLogic2; as it should be.

    The difference in the first set-up and this set-up.

    The fist had no significant sound separation and this set-up did.

    Before, the sounds and voices on the "2 minute preview" were perceived as coming from the screen, whereas, with the new set-up, one "soldier on the radio" was beneath the screen the another voice was perceived as coming from the corner of the room.

    This set-up also keeps the GS7/cable overlay.
     
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  3. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Good job !! :)

    The second setup (FiOS stb > hdmi > GS7 > hdmi > Soundbar > hdmi > TV) is what I would’ve recommended.
    We ‘d only fall back to your first setup if there was hdcp issue w/ FiOS stb.

    Surprisingly, this soundbar seems capable of decoding Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) as well. So, Lets try to improve the sound a bit more.

    change the "Audio Pass-through" to = "On"

    (This way no need for GS7 to re-encode DD+ to DD and let the soundbar directly decodes DD+)
    The “Fury” was encoded in DD+ (not DD), btw.

    Also, give "Punsher: War Zone" - "2 Min Preview" a try, (this title is actually encoded in 5.1 Dolby Digital (5.1DD) & not 5.1DD+) to see how it sound comparing to Fury’s DD+.


    As far as ARC, in most cases is not needed, unless you trying to send audio from the TV to the soundbar but you already have FiOS stb for OTA and the soundbar already have hdmi in&out. Technically, ARC doesn’t have much advantage over optical as both use SPDIF protocol (except for using one less cable). Anyway, every TV firmware is different when it comes to passing (or not) 5.1DD/2ch-PCM/Downmix over ARC or Optical out.

    In short, no need for your TV to support ARC.
     
  4. Travel

    Travel Active Member

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    Thanks, Revue5, great to have that confirmation of the right set-up again.

    Good catch the "Fury" coming through with DD+ on the "two minute preview." I didn't notice that before, as everything I've tested has shown-up as either "DD Digital" or "PCM ProLogic2" on the receiver display; this time, testing with "Fury," the display read "Digital Plus."

    Another thing that changed is that the "Fury" trailer displayed both "PCM" AND "DD Digital" on the receiver display. Before, it displayed "PCM ProLogic2."

    I think these changes may have occurred after your suggestion of turning "audio pass-through" to "on" in the GoogleTV settings, where the receiver now performs the decoding.

    I also have the DRC setting to "off" in the GoogleTV settings. However, the receiver has a setting for "range" and a DRC choice of "Max;" Standard" or "auto/min." I'm not sure if this means that the DRC is reduced to a maximum level ("Max"), etc., or if these settings mean that DRC will be at a maximum ("Max," etc.) if set for "Max," etc.
     
  5. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now you get the right set-up and the right GS7 settings. The rest (i.e., DRC, ProLogic2, sound effects, etc.) is considered sound tweaking. I suggest you use the soundbar remote for that and remember hdmi-inputs are independent also I think the soundbar has only 3.1 speakers (you did not add 2 speakers to make it 5.1) right?

    Keep in mind; the objective here is not just to get sound from all speakers but also not to lose sound and be able (later on) to hear the dialogues during action scenes.

    On GS7 side,
    Keep these settings,
    Audio Output (HDMI) > Auto
    Audio Pass-through > On
    DRC > Off

    On soundbar side,
    Avoid unknown auto switching, disable HDMI control and set Audio out to “AMP”,
    HDMI settings > HDMI control > Off
    HDMI settings > Audio out > AMP (not TV)
    Set DRC to “STANDARD” (“MAX means Off - “Auto” is ok for BDP/DVD)

    From that point on, use these soundbar remote buttons “SURROUND”(#1) and “Clear voice”(# 14) and maybe (#11 & 10) to tweak sound.


    Re: "PCM ProLogic2"
    Fyi, "Fury" trailer is encoded in 2.0DD (all trailers are in stereo, btw). Referring to the trailer (not the "2 Min Preview") if sound is good and better than "PCM ProLogic2" that you heard before, then ignore the following.

    If "PCM ProLogic2" displayed before?? That possibly due to GS7 Sound effects was enabled? And "audio pass-through" = "on" bypasses this setting.
    (You’ll find GS7 Sound effects check the box by going to Settings > Picture & sound > Sound effects)

    Anyway, this receiver disables “PCM ProLogic2” option(s) in “Default mode” (w/ only Bar speaker). "PCM ProLogic2" usually for stereo signal & 5 (or more) connected speakers. but if you looking to get "PCM ProLogic2" , I don’t suggest you alter GS7 settings or you may lose good surround sound instead you may add two more surround speakers (or trick the receiver “speakers setup”, but w/this you may lose some sound).

    Q, did you change “speakers setup” before? or you left it at “Default setting”?
     
  6. Travel

    Travel Active Member

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    Revue5, I've had the receiver setting on "Amp" throughout, as I had read your tips on the Yamaha receiver before I first set it up.

    GS7 "sound effects" always off.

    Haven't seen a "default" mode in the receiver settings. I'm not sure where that is. Unless this is an automatic feature.

    I've now disabled "HDMI control" in the receiver settings. What does this do? What happens if it's "on" or "off"?

    And set the receiver DRC to "standard."

    Right now: "fury" "2 minute preview = "DD Digital Plus" on the receiver display; "Fury" trailer = "DD Digital" AND "ProLogic2." (Note: the trailer is no longer showing "PMC" on the receiver display, as it did on previous tests- see my last post, above-).

    With "Punisher: War Zone," the "2 minute preview" reads "DD Digital," and the trailer reads: "DD Digital" AND "ProLogic 2," the same as the "Fury" trailer (just as you said, that all the trailers have the same audio content).

    All sound great. Yes, better than before; thanks again for the help with this.


    My speaker set-up has aways been the same: no separate "left" and "right" "back-speakers," just the sound bar's "front-speakers" "left, "right" and "center" speakers, plus, the separate sub woofer.

    The only change with the speakers is location. Just before this post. I mounted the sound bar on the wall behind the HDTV, but about six feet off the floor, well above the top of the HDTV.

    Before, I had the sound bar in front of the HDTV on the same cabinet: the cabinet isn't wide enough where the feet of the sound bar could be resting on the cabinet, and the bottom of the sound bar had to be flat on the cabinet surface; with the feet hanging in the air past both ends of the cabinet. I decided that, by being flat on the cabinet, the sound bar may be getting unwanted, feedback vibration; although no vibration-sounds were audible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  7. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    “Default mode”, I should’ve said, “Default setting”. The receiver comes with the Bar/speaker. In “SP SETUP” >“3CH” setting is the “default setting”. (fyi, if you add two more speakers +/or replace the Bar/speaker with 3 speakers then “3CH” need to be changed to “5CH” in “SP SETUP”) – I was asking because changing that would activate MATRIX DECODE – anyway, looks like you didn’t change it so, ignore it.

    "HDMI control" (“HDMI-CEC”) is mainly to control the unit via the TV remote. But when this setting is enabled, it also activates other functions (e.g. ARC, etc.) and the unit may respond to other hdmi-in signals & auto switches. I think you already use IR to control your gear. If so, disable it also in GS7, TV & other players to avoid the unknown.

    Yeah, in that case, I think mount it on the wall is better, too.

    Looks like you all set.

    Pump up the volume!! :D
     
  8. Travel

    Travel Active Member

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    Thanks, great help!
     

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