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Dolby digital plus through HDMI input

Discussion in 'Sony's NSZ-GS8 / NSZ-GS7' started by Apw2607, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    I've got my tivo premier connected to the gs7 through HDMI. It all works good but I've got a issue with dolby digital plus. I like watching amazon vod and netflix using the tivo clients as its the only player I have that does 1080p/24 and DD+. The problem is when it goes through the GS7, I only get Dolby Digital. Not dolby digital plus. The 1080p/24 passes through fine.


    I've switched the pass through feature on with the gs7 but it just won't pass the DD+ through the HDMI input that I can see.


    Has anyone else ran into this?
     
  2. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    I use Amazon and have used Netflix, DD+ titles with those services have been few and far between in my experience. If you have an Amazon DD+ title on your TiVo and it passes through as DD+ if connected directly, I would say it appears that the NSZ-GS7 does not handle Dolby Digital Plus. I have the NSZ-GT1 and recall it handles DD+ pass through and will confirm that again when I get a chance but it is possible the newer non Blu-ray model wouldn't handle it.
     
  3. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    Thanks. Yes, there's now quite a few Netflix titles with DD+ now and all the new Amazon instant VOD new releases titles appear to be DD+ (for Tivo download .. not streaming, since Tivo doesn't even support streaming with Amazon).

    Did some more testing too. Connected my Bluray player to the GS7 HDMI input. DTS and DTS master audio do pass through the GS7, but the GS7 needs to convert it to PCM multi-channel. It did respect the 7.1 channels though.

    Kind of disappointing really. I understand most cable boxes only have Dolby Digital, but with more and more STBs now are also doing streaming and the fact that Google TV is quite happy for you to connect a Bluray player to its input, its surprising that the box can't respect what ever audio is coming in. Seems like a basic requirement to me. After all, they do it for Video, why not audio ??

    Perhaps it can be addressed in a firmware update ... if you are listening Google or Sony ?
     
  4. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    When using the NSZ-GS7 directly for Netflix, do you get DD+? It is interesting if it will handle it directly but not handle with pass through from the TiVo and I would think definitely an issue that could be addressed by firmware update.
     
  5. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    Yes. The netflix client on the gs7 supports and play out DD+ just fine. Unfortunately the GTV netflix client doesn't support 1080p/24 native though. That's why the tivo netflix client is my preferred client.
     
  6. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting topic ....:)


    • Assuming your TiVo is connected directly to the TV (bypass GS7) and TiVo settings configured to "1080p/24p" > "On", (w/ available steady bandwidth).
    • I think, some Netflix's 1080p HD contents are encoded in "24 FPS" and others in "30/60 FPS".
    • Also, some Netflix's HD contents are in 720p and others in 1080p.


    I got few questions, (reference to streaming, not to download),


    Q1. Do you know if all Netflix streaming contents are in "native 1080p/24p"? If so, could you provide a link for that?

    Q2. Does your TiVo force-output all Netflix contents (stream) in 1080p/24p? If so, do you experience any dropped frames, stuttering and/or black screen for few sec. (during the stream)?
    As a result of outputting a 30 fps stream at 24p (or switching from 1080p to 720p).​


    Q3. Does TiVo auto detect (dynamically choose 60P/24P material) and switches between 1080p/60p & 1080p/24p?

    Q4. Can TiVo scale Netflix HD contents in 720p to 1080p/24p w/o issues? Or do you have to turn TiVo's "1080p/24p" to "OFF"? (& set 1080i > On to display "P24 encodes" as 1080i/30).

    Q5. Would limiting TiVo resolution to 720p (or 1080i only) settings (for Netflix streaming) is more convenient than enabling "1080p/24p" ("On" all the time)?
    Since it's not easy to differentiate between Netflix HD contents in 720p, 1080p/30 or 1080p/24 (or even servers connection hiccups).​





    Thanks in advance ;)
     
  7. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    This is correct.

    All the film content for the most part is in 1080p/24 however something to note. Only if Tivo is able to play, or Netflix offers the highest stream available (Something like 5.8Kb/s) will Tivo "switch" to 1080p/24 if that option is enabled in settings.

    Otherwise Tivo remains at a lower resolution .... If you have 720p selected then it will be that, but if you have only 1080i selected then Tivo will scale to 1080i.


    [/QUOTE]
    I got few questions, (reference to streaming, not to download),


    Q1. Do you know if all Netflix streaming contents are in “native 1080p/24p”? If so, could you provide a link for that?

    Q2. Does your TiVo force-output all Netflix contents (stream) in 1080p/24p? If so, do you experience any dropped frames, stuttering and/or black screen for few sec. (during the stream)?
    As a result of outputting a 30 fps stream at 24p (or switching from 1080p to 720p).​


    Q3. Does TiVo auto detect (dynamically choose 60P/24P material) and switches between 1080p/60p & 1080p/24p?

    Q4. Can TiVo scale Netflix HD contents in 720p to 1080p/24p w/o issues? Or do you have to turn TiVo’s “1080p/24p” to “OFF”? (& set 1080i > On to display “P24 encodes” as 1080i/30).

    Q5. Would limiting TiVo resolution to 720p (or 1080i only) settings (for Netflix streaming) is more convenient than enabling “1080p/24p” (“On” all the time)?
    Since it’s not easy to differentiate between Netflix HD contents in 720p, 1080p/30 or 1080p/24 (or even servers connection hiccups).​

    Thanks in advance ;)[/QUOTE]

    A1: Yes, most of their new film content is, but thats not really the point. its more about what quality stream is available for a show. Only if SuperHD is available or the 5.8Kb/s stream, will Tivo Switch to 1080p/24

    A2: No. It only switches when the highest quality stream is available

    A3: No. If the 1080p/24 stream isn't available then it will be in 720p (if you have 720p selected in your display settings). If not then it will be 1080i. Tivo is unable to upscale to 1080p/60 content, but can "passthrough" 1080p/24 content.

    A4: As above, Tivo doesn't / can't scale to 1080p/60 or even scale to 1080p/24. It can only passthrough to 1080p/24. So if the hq stream is available, then you're fine. If its the 720p stream , then thats what you will get.

    A5: Based on the answers above, you can see now how this works. Passthrough is just that. So its not a issue. It actually works really well, once you understand how the streams and what streams are available for certain shows.

    Tivo just need to add the SuperHD tag to the UI. It is playing the HQ stream, its just the UI's not being updated yet, like the GTV box, or my Sony BD player.

    You can play around yourself with this. There is a nice test file to see what stream you are getting and what is being displayed.

    Its called "Example Short 23.976". Do a search on Netflix to find it and have fun.
     
  8. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    This is correct.

    All the film content for the most part is in 1080p/24 however something to note. Only if Tivo is able to play, or Netflix offers the higher quality streams (either 4300 or 5800kb/s) will Tivo "switch" to 1080p/24 if that option is enabled in settings.

    Otherwise Tivo remains at a lower resolution .... If you have 720p selected then it will be that, but if you have only 1080i selected then Tivo will scale to 1080i.


    A1: Yes, most of their new film content is, but thats not really the point. its more about what quality stream is available for a show. Only if 4300kb/s or 5800kb/s is available will Tivo Switch to 1080p/24.

    A2: No. It only switches when the highest quality stream is available

    A3: No. If the 1080p/24 stream isn't available then it will be in 720p (if you have 720p selected in your display settings). If not then it will be 1080i. Tivo is unable to upscale to 1080p/60 content, but can "passthrough" 1080p/24 content.

    A4: As above, Tivo doesn't / can't scale to 1080p/60 or even scale to 1080p/24. It can only passthrough to 1080p/24. So if the hq stream is available, then you're fine. If its the 720p stream , then thats what you will get.

    A5: Based on the answers above, you can see now how this works. Passthrough is just that. So its not a issue. It actually works really well, once you understand how the streams and what streams are available for certain shows.

    Tivo just need to add the SuperHD tag to the UI. It is playing the HQ streams, its just the UI's not being updated yet, like the GTV box, or my Sony BD player.

    You can play around yourself with this. There is a nice test file to see what stream you are getting and exactly what the resolution and bit rate is.

    Its called "Example Short 23.976". Do a search on Netflix to find it and have fun.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  9. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Thanks for the info,


    Back to "Dolby Digital Plus" pass-through GS7 (via hdmi-in) topic,


    FYI,
    * Sony NSZ-GS7 Netflix App supports streaming HD contents in 1080P/60 & Dolby Digital Plus (5.1DD+ if available) ➡ see this link
    * Sony NSZ-GS7 Hardware supports native 1080p/24 (auto output at the native rate).
    * Sony NSZ-GS7 pass-through audio formats test (via hdmi-in) ➡ see this link



    Give these steps a try,


    A. Pass-through A/V signal (from TiVo w/GS7 Turned Off):

    1. Enable "Quick Start mode" in GS7 settings.
      From Settings > Unit settings > Eco > Quick start > On
      From Settings > Unit settings > Eco > Auto standby > Off
      .
    2. Turn Off GS7 (standby).
    3. Stream (from TiVo) Netflix HD (1080p/24) & (5.1DD+) title.
    4. Check A/V output? (1080p/24) & (5.1DD+), (5.1DD), (5.1 PCM) or (none)



    B.
    Pass-through A/V signal (from TiVo w/GS7 Turned On):
    1. Set GS7 Audio output to "Auto":
      From Settings > Picture & sound > Audio output (HDMI) > Auto
      From Settings > Picture & sound > Audio pass-through > On
      .
    2. Stream (from Tivo) Netflix HD (1080p/24) & (5.1DD+) title.
    3. Check A/V output? (1080p/24) & (5.1DD+), (5.1DD), (5.1 PCM)



    C.
    Pass-through A/V signal (from TiVo w/GS7 Turned On):
    1. Set GS7 Audio output to "PCM":
      From Settings > Picture & sound > Audio output (HDMI) > PCM
      From Settings > Picture & sound > Audio pass-through > On
      .
    2. Stream (from TiVo) Netflix HD (1080p/24) & (5.1DD+) title.
    3. Check A/V output? (1080p/24) & (5.1 PCM)


    Btw, if "C" the audio output is in 5.1PCM (Multi-channels PCM), that should be full "DD+" transcode to "PCM" (not "DD" transcode to PCM).
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  10. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    A) 1080p/24 and 5.1DD
    B) 1080p/24 and. 5.1DD
    C) 1080p/24 and 5.1PCM

    with c) there is no way to really know if the GS7 is transcoding DD or DD+ to PCM
     
  11. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    If you can't tell the difference between DD and DD+ decoded to PCM by the player, I doubt if you can tell the difference if the AV receiver decodes it, I am not sure any of this should make any difference.
     
  12. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    huh ?
     
  13. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean by huh but if you can not tell the difference by listening with the player decoding DD or DD+, meaning you don't know which it is. DD+ must not be enough better to matter. Play DD+ directly by the TiVo, listen, go back and decode the same program by the player and see what is being decoded, if you can't tell, why would you care whether you listen to DD or DD+? I believe the player is decoding DD+ but if there is any audible advantage for DD+ over DD with this highly compressed audio, DD+ being less compressed but still lossy, you should be able to hear it. You are sure pass through is only DD, listen, then listen when you are sure it is DD+ by direct connection. Do some listening tests and make a determination if you can tell the difference.

    There will be no difference with player decoding versus AV receiver decoding, that much is a given when using the same receiver unless there is a bust with how the AV receiver handles PCM vs how it handles bitstream. I know I can never tell any difference whatsoever comparing player decoding to AV receiver decoding, I have done that test enough with my equipment. I can tell a difference between lossy and lossless but never tried to compare DD to DD+ with the same material.
     
  14. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    You assume you aren't get DD+ because the receiver doesn't have the logo lit up, at least that is how I suspect you have made the determination. If you have an HD DVD player, a bunch of HD DVDs used DD+, unfortunately very few Blu-ray discs do but it would be worth knowing if the NSZ-GS7 passes though DD+ from one the disc formats. Maybe the NSZ-GS7 is passing through DD+ but altering the flag that identifies what audio codec is used. I can check here with the NSZ-GT1,pass through both streaming DD+ and disc based DD+ and see what my Yamaha AV receiver believes is being passed through by the NSZ-GT1 but I don't have a GS7 to check. I am pretty sure the GT1 passes DD+ but my TiVoHD probably doesn't play DD+ so I would have to connect sources that do, Vudu is handled by several players I own and it uses DD+ often.
     
  15. Apw2607

    Apw2607 New Member

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    The whole point of the thread was tell the forum community what the GS7 does when it receives DD+ on the HDMI input, and then do some further troubleshooting. It doesn't matter what I think of DD+ v regular DD. That's not the point of the thread. It was to try and understand what the GS7 was doing with different audio signal like DD+

    How do I know its not receiving the DD+ signal. Well my Denon AVR 4311 has a onscreen display that shows what the audio signal is, what frequency, how many channels, etc.

    If the GS7 is doing internal decoding from DD+ to PCM, when PCM is set, then fine, but when I said, how would you know, and you answered, well, you have to listen to it and see ..... in my opinion that's not very scientific is it? I could speculate all I like about lots of things, but I don't think that's very useful.

    I know of no DD+ disks. The system was developed for streaming services to give them a bit rate range, similar to what they have done with video streaming technology.

    Anyway, I think we have exhaustive this subject. No DD+ bitstream passthrough on the GS7. Done.
     
  16. googlethis

    googlethis New Member

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    When I watch a movie on Netflix that has DD+, my Yamaha receiver shows it as DD+. My Sony NSZGS7 is hooked up to the Yamaha receiver via HDMI.
    I have no idea why your Denon won't show it as DD+ but the DD+ bitstream passthrough most definately does work with the NZSGS7.
     
  17. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    He agrees the NSZ-GS7 can handle DD+ from Netflix directly but his claim is it can not pass through DD+ when a device receiving DD+ is connected by HDMI, in this case using his TiVo. His claim is based on the lack of indication by his AV receiver, for pass through it only shows DD, not DD+. It is worth knowing if true or false but I am puzzled how pass through could change DD+ to DD.

    It doesn't matter, he has closed the case and can't tell the difference anyway. If you have another device that can handle Netflix DD+, you can connect it to the HDMI input on your NSZ-GS7 and see what your Yamaha AVR thinks.
     
  18. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    Ref. to "A" where GS7 is turned Off,

    There is still one possibility; TiVo has decided to output "DD" instead of "DD+". ;)


    (with "A") while streaming (from TiVo), try to exit the title then restart it & see if the audio changes from "DD" to "DD+". (& try that with "B" as well).

    Also, (for proper hdmi handshake negotiations) I'd say try to use the latest "High speed HDMI cables" (if you haven't done so).



    - make sure "Audio pass-through > On"

    - while streaming (from TiVo), go to [Settings > Picture & sound > Dolby information] ......... (& check the info)



    Btw, i assume, you 'd like to use the GS7 as an external video scaler. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  19. ChrisG8

    ChrisG8 Well-Known Member

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    He has connected the TiVo directly to his receiver, it indicates DD+. Running Netflix on the NSZ-GS7 directly, the indication is DD+, it is only when running the TiVo through the NSZ-GS7, no DD+ is indicated.
     
  20. revue5

    revue5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, yes i'm aware of that.... however, Sony is not clear on DD+ passthrough (via hdmi-in) & not easy to find a "DD+ disc" to test it - as here.

    Also, there are reports that TiVo mysteriously outputs DD instead of DD+ when connected (via hdmi) to unable DD+ sound system? (indicating possible auto-detect to output DD/DD+).


    Anyway, i figure since the OP already has all the devices on-hand, it won't hurt to ask :D
     

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