Quantcast

Cyanogen Mod - Google TV's Future

Discussion in 'Google TV General Discussion' started by guest, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. guest

    guest Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    We all know by now that 1st. generation Google TV devices were "thrown under the bus", never to be officially updated with those sweet and delicious Android treats - like ice cream sandwiches and jellybeans and kitkat bars. Yahoo! And the newer generation GTV's are likely to fall by the wayside, ignored by Google and the device manufacturers, too, soon enough.


    Google seems to have lost its way. The Android O.S. is a way for them to sell ads, NOT devices. Yet, by signing away their right to unilaterally and exclusively push Android updates to the devices that bear their name ("Google TV"), they've infuriated those that bought into this hare-brained scheme of allowing the device manufacturers to be the "update gatekeepers"!


    I expect that Cyanogen Mod will be the likely saviour of the GTV platform, in addition to cellphones and tablets in a similar dilemma - albeit without the blessings of GOOG.
    CyanogenMod | Android Community Rom based on Jelly Bean


    They're fully funded now and slowly going mainstream. It's only a matter of time before each and every Google TV sold functions at its maximum best. Each device has its limitations, and so not all will work with Android O.S. 4.4, but they certainly won't be, and shouldn't be, stuck using Honeycomb!


    Android hacker CyanogenMod gets funded ·  LinuxGizmos.com
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. drhill

    drhill Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No unlocked boot loader no cyanogen mod.
     
  3. guest

    guest Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Here's some background info. on this issue, for those not up-to-date, as was I.
    So You Want To Know About Bootloaders, Encryption, Signing, And Locking? Let Me Explain


    So for anyone reading this in the future: WARNING: Do not buy a Google TV that has a locked bootloader!


    That said, are ANY Google TV's being marketed with unlocked bootloaders?


    And is there a URL where potential buyers can check whether particular devices have unlocked bootloaders?


    The Android Police article above says this about unlocked bootloaders:

    "Fortunately, in recent news, it seems HTC plans to reverse their current trend and release new phones with 'unlocked' bootloaders, and Sony Ericsson has said its new (sim-unlocked) Xperia line of phones is also very moddable. Samsung seems to already be onboard with this line of thought, with its Galaxy S II easily unlockable if you so wish."
     
  4. CatfishRivers

    CatfishRivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,604
    Likes Received:
    877
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No GTV devices are being marketed with unlocked bootloaders - and IMO they never will be. Google has legal agreements with the content providers (such as Netflix) and the OEMS - that the bootloaders aren't to be opened up. An open bootloader means more piracy concerns from the content providers.

    It's in Google's best interest to maintain their relationships with the official content partners. It goes beyond just GTV but also involves the content relationships for the Google Play Store and YouTube. These relationships are far more important to Google's bottom line than making a handful of GTV tech enthusiasts happy. Sorry but it aint gonna happen.

    If you want an open box with rooting and open bootloaders the 'unofficial' android TV devices from China are the way to go. There are numerous android TV devices from China available. IMO the Chinese android sticks aren't really well-suited for the mass market. They are better suited for tech enthusiasts that like to tinker around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  5. zim2dive

    zim2dive Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ignoring the lower level technical details, I think the crux of it is this.. Google can't do anything that would allow end-users to be able to get at the HDMI stream (ie. the contect) going thru the device and be able to copy/record that content.

    If that issue could be separated/protected from being able to load custom ROMs, then maybe we'd have a prayer.

    but the content (and relationship with content providers) is the golden goose.

    that being said, It certainly would be nice if these could be hacked.. I'm not after the content.. I'm just after being able to load some better ROMs.
     
  6. guest

    guest Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It's been reported that the Hisense Pulse Pro will ship with Jellybean. The only (or at least one) reason people want to unlock the bootloader is to update a device, not for any nefarious reasons. So this new Hisense product is good news for the Google TV brand. But meanwhile, the industry has made all prior devices obsolete by not allowing updates beyond Honeycomb!
     
  7. CatfishRivers

    CatfishRivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,604
    Likes Received:
    877
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It doesn't matter what "people" want - it matters what the content providers and in turn Google wants. Google has legal contracts with the GTV OEMs - and as such if the OEMs open up the bootloader - not only is their relationship with Google over - but they will be sued in court.

    If "people" want this - why not just buy one of the numerous android TV sticks from China.

    In summary:

    1) GTV are 'closed' devices

    2) Unofficial android TV devices from China are by and large 'open' devices.
     
  8. jonw747

    jonw747 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    63
    More open? There's some low-level source code that is not out in public, which makes fixing problems in these devices difficult to impossible. In fact, that's true with most Android devices. The firmware that communicates with the radios in a cell phone is typically closed source. Add-ons developed by the OEM are typically closed source.

    Getting past the bootloader is just the start.
     
  9. CatfishRivers

    CatfishRivers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    14,604
    Likes Received:
    877
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good points. I didn't mean to infer that the android TV devices from China are 'better' than GTV - in fact in a previous post I mentioned that the android TV devices are probably best suited for 'tinkerers' and tech enthusiasts. I am talking about things such as rooting and installing custom roms. For the overall mass market these android TV products are probably not ideal because in many cases there is a lack of firmware support from the manufacturer. Also certain official GTV apps such as the Amazon video app won't run on the Chinese devices.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For those that are interested here is a good thread from a 'tinkerer' (with a bit of tech savvy) - and is he is quite happy with the 'open' capability of his android TV device from China as he installs custom roms that he likes:

    http://www.googletvforum.org/forum/...ndroid-tv-box-thread-some-tips-off-topic.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  10. jonw747

    jonw747 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I agree, albeit you don't have to modify the ROMs in these devices. I haven't yet done so in mine. Most people do so to work around issues in the ROMs that come with the product. For instance, my device runs a 720p kernel even though it displays 1080p. There are custom ROMs that address that, but running some of them may lead to overheating or new problems.

    My dongle can play XBMC, but I haven't used it. I like that it can run Splashtop and Slingplayer, though. It can't run Amazon video for the same reason that Android tablets can't (Amazon doesn't want them to).

    As it is, I think it's fine for doing the things that my other devices can't do and it should do just fine as a travel device (where the Chromecast for instance is all but useless).

    IMO, these devices are getting real close to breaking through. The RokChip based devices have been a struggle, but I have my eyes on the AmLogic based ones. What I'm getting at here are that there are certain things we take for granted on a decent streaming device - such as support for high-end audio/video formats, 1080p, and no stuttering. This typically requires decent H/W decoders and solid driver support, and whatever form of DRM you'd typically find in a tablet. Once they get over this hump with either better drivers for the RokChip or perhaps new designs based on AmLogic or something else, they can make some real progress.

    And as Google actually targets Android more at the TV, their job may get even easier. For instance, I have an air mouse/keyboard I use with my Android dongle. It's pretty good compared to a trackpad, but it would be much better if it also supported the arrow cluster and transport buttons everywhere.
     
  11. streamer

    streamer New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So, is my 2-yr old Sony TV going to get "Jelly Bean" upgrades or not? Or do I have to buy the Chromecast stick?
     
  12. guest

    guest Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Are the familiar with the term "jerked around"? When the same content available on a computer is denied to Google TV owners, then the public is being jerked around! Any argument to the contrary is nonsensical. I hope Cyanogen Mod develops a mainstream device and BURIES Google and their set-top box. This paradigm needs to be BROKEN. Period. And screw DRM, too. The public is being jerked around with that, as well.


    You go back to WebTV and MSNTV, as do I. GoogleTV is on the same path as those devices. The loser is the public. The winner? It's not the public. The winner is out-of-control capitalism.


    Cyanogen Mod. Make my day!
     
  13. Greenenergyassessors

    Greenenergyassessors New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Swansea,UK
    I'd buy the Chromecast Stick personally. You can use it in the knowledge that we are still waiting for it, and you have it! :D
     
  14. zim2dive

    zim2dive Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    28
    DRM question... We are able to get phones/tablets which the end-user can load ROMs onto which support Netflix/Amazon/etc, ie. streaming which requires DRM... is that b/c the DRM is somehow at the chip level? ie. the ROMs can't circumvent it?

    If so.. I would guess that _could_ happen at the "TV" level as well...

    Beyond that level of DRM, I think, would be the protection for the HDMI-in stream... that is what I think differentiates GTV from the other devices.. could that still be protected in a device which is capable to allow users to load other ROMs.

    I'm a pragmatist enough to believe no one will give us a device with HDMI passthrough/overlay without sufficient protections.. and frankly that "in-line" path for me is a very important feature.

    Technical detail welcome...
     
  15. Carlszone

    Carlszone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Norfolk Va
    Hi Guest

    Normally I'd agree with ya. But the statement that 'the public is being jerked around' tends to seem a lil bit dramatic. The 'public' has spoken overwhelmingly for devices that do not restrict them to a Google only environment. Google has cooked its own goose by courting content providers at the same time they were making statements that their goal was to kill cable. But they went ahead w/a system that depended on the very same providers to cooperate in a way that would be profitable for both.

    As marketable products go, GTV in all its forms from devices to TVs already launched w/handicaps that early users should have easily foreseen would lead to where we are today. Many of us decided to go along for the ride anyway. Most of the early GTV enthusiasts have quietly abandoned the field for other more promising internet access alternatives. Google never promised anything written in stone about the future of GTV.

    But I'll grant you this: the speed w/which GTV became irrelevant was faster than even I expected! But that is not really Google's fault. It was a combination of many factors. One was the individual launching errors by companies like Logitech (overpricing) Vizio (defective units) Netgear (lack of support) LG (black screens) Hisense (buggy & unstable).

    Add to the above other factors like Logitech dropping the Revue early on. Or the delays in adding features that came standard w/most streaming devices. The long wait for the Amazon Instant Video app. All these things contributed to the lack of consumer confidence it takes for a platform to succeed.

    The handwriting was already on the wall...

    Carl
     
  16. zim2dive

    zim2dive Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I've got no problem with it being a "Google" environment... my issue is that it was such a limited sub-set of that environment... ie. not being generally compatible with a majority of the apps in the Play store.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Carlszone

    Carlszone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Norfolk Va
    Correct.

    And if that annoyed you, imagine what it did to users who were trying a streaming device for the first time. And as I've said before, the younger crowd has no patience to wait for future developments on any device. When they buy a device they want the spit & polish of a finished product. Unless ya pay em, they will not willingly be voluntary Beta-Testers for Google or any one else!

    Media players cannot be approached as one would a search engine. Before ya label a device a media player ya better make damn sure the thing can play freaking media!

    Lol...

    Carl
     
  18. Carlszone

    Carlszone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Norfolk Va
    Remember MSN's approach. They put pressure on many webmasters to make their sites compatible w/WebTV. But the only real problems I had was on MSN sites! Google has all the same shortcomings and more. The Google Play store w/app incompatibility. Youtube w/content not for TV and the 'Aw Snaps!' bug. Gmail and the non-loading bar and incompatible formats that ya needed to access on a PC just to open it. Google Maps took forever for the loading fix.

    I look at set top boxes as an opportunity for companies to show off their software. MSN should have focused on Windows. Instead they invested in a box that could only open one window at a time. Google did get one thing right. The search on all the devices was worthy of a Google product. Sadly most folks don't buy a media player just to search.

    Let's see what the next gen Android Nexus TV brings...

    Carl
     
  19. jonw747

    jonw747 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It seems multiple factors conspired. For instance, the failure of the second generation devices was brutal to the reputation of the platform ... the Sony was ok, but the ASUS, NetGear, Vizio, and the HiSense launches were terrible. Yet, the platform seemed to be gaining steam for a while, and I'd go to the PlayStore and get my free song of the day, and check out the new Apps ... and then that seemingly all dried up and things that worked started to rot. The price drop on the Logitech Revue's was fueling things before that.

    I actually think JellyBean has contributed to the state of things because after the PrimeTime App came out and voice control was released, all other developments seem to be frozen waiting on JB. Why develop for the current platform when it's already obsolete?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. mrspock

    mrspock Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Google has soooooo many things going on at the same time in terms products & services being offered that they are a master of none. Google is like a headless chicken running around. Everything google does seems like an experiment and lot of them being dropped mid-stream and if one can live with that in mind then that's fine. Apple on the other hand, of which I'm not a fan, runs their operations like well oiled machine and people know exactly what they going to get and when.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
custom rom logitech revue
,
cyanogen android tv
,
cyanogenmod google tv
,
cyanogenmod logitech revue
,
cyanogenmod sony google tv
,
google tv cyanogenmod
,
install cyanogenmod googletv
,

logitech revue custom rom

,
logitech revue cyanogenmod
,
sony google tv cyanogenmod